Question:
E85, Hybrid, Natural Gas, Plug in electric, -- which is the best both economically and environmentally?
crookmatt
2007-05-26 12:44:00 UTC
The big US automakers have sold several million "flex-fuel" vehicles that run on E85.

Toyota, Honda, and Ford are selling thousands of Hybrids

Tesla (www.teslamotors.com) has recently released an all electric car, but unfortunately its very expensive and I can't afford it.

Honda also has begun selling Natural Gas powered Civics to the public in New York and California, which emit even fewer emissions than the Toyota Prius, and costs less to re-fuel.

I'm thinking about purchasing a economical and environmentally friendly vehicle. What is my best choice. I live in California.
Seven answers:
apeweek
2007-05-27 14:48:57 UTC
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The answer is electric, and I will make my case below.

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Electric vehicles are here NOW, and can even be found very cheaply, if you know where to look. Here's a website about cheap electric cars (as little as $5000):

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http://squidoo.com/cheap-electric-car

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Nothing is cheaper to drive than an electric car. This may surprise some people, but it's true. I drive an EV, and my electricity cost is only ONE CENT per mile.

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EVs are cheap to drive because they are very energy efficient. This is also why they pollute so little, even when electricity comes from fossil fuels.

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Finally, look at one of the newest EVs on the market - the ZAP-X:

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http://zapworld.com/zapworld.aspx?id=4560

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The ZAP-X is a 644-horsepower, 155mph electric car designed by Lotus. It has a 350-mile range, and charges in just 10 minutes. $60,000, but worth it.

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essie
2016-05-18 08:00:18 UTC
Hybrids get decent fuel economy, but the problem is they are very complex, and very expensive. Toyota charges a $7,000 premium for their HSD. So yes, that means the Prius is a $14,000 car with a $7,000 drive system. Also they are not environmentally friendly because of their large nickle based batteries. Nickle creates extremely toxic emissions when being produced. And it has to go through several more step before it's a battery. Diesel is very efficient, but unfortunately the government has risen the emission standards so much for diesels they are becoming less and less practical. Electric cars and Plug ins will be the best on an economic and environmental level. They are inexpensive to use, and get their energy from power plants, which have a MUCH higher efficiency than a vehicle... so that means less overall emissions. GM is making an Electric vehicle called the Chevrolet Volt, and that will be out ~2009. You plug it in to charge the battery, and it will go 40 miles on electric only. After that, a gas generator turns on to charge the battery. While doing that you get 50 MPG. About 5 MPG better than a Prius. GM's main target is the Prius, so you can expect it to cost a little over $20,000.
ghetoaid
2007-05-26 13:15:32 UTC
The best for the environment would be the plug-in electric car, Tesla. It does not produce any pollution at all, and has pretty good mileage for an electric car, but is very expensive. The best of both worlds (economically and environmentally) are hybrids right now. They have extremely low emissions, are very fuel efficient, and relatively inexpensive. Flex fuel is probably the next best, as far as being affordable, but it also burns cleaner than regular fuel. For now, a hybrid would fit what you are looking for the best.
anonymous
2007-05-26 12:51:06 UTC
At this point in time, probably the hybrid is still your best bet. ZAP sells pure electric cars but they are small and short range.



Tesla is awesome but way too expensive and they'll be broke soon.



Ethanol is a total scam, and is worthless for our future. It pollutes MORE than gasoline (in some categories), it has far less energy per gallon, and its merely a subsidy to farmers...a hidden tax if you will, or socialism for the few to buy votes in the Midwest.



A hybrid car that can run on bio-diesel would be your best bet for at least the next ten years IMO.
professorprius
2007-05-29 09:37:59 UTC
Hi, you've asked a very detailed question. Get comfy and we'll run through each option.



Each has it's own pluses and minuses, but considering where you live, and considering you don't bring up moving to another state soon, we can eliminate a couple right away.



* E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Ethanol is grain alcohol, most commonly made from corn, but new technologies are being developed to produce ethanol from waste plant materials, such as corn stalks. This is still a ways off for the US, but other countries do use it.



Ethanol is currently less expensive than regular gasoline, however that could change. Remember that ethanol is made here from corn, what happens if there is a change in corn production? What happens if it becomes politically more advantageous to sell more of our surplus corn to the world (China, anyone?) or we get hit with drought conditions that severly limit the amount of surplus corn produced?



This is in addition to the fact that we are taxed as a country to suppliment the production of corn, and then corn into ethanol.



Plus ethanol, being alcohol, is less dense than oil and provides less energy for the same volume of material. You get less mileage for the same amount of fluid.



And ethanol is not available across the country. There are currently about 260,000 public gas stations in the US, but only about 1.5% of them carry ethanol. In some places, those stations are common, in other areas they don't exist.



So ethanol is not a good, long term choice. Sounds good in ads, but doesn't add up.



* Electrics and plug-ins could be a great idea if they were more common and could do more for you. What is important here is that the range and/or speed is extremely limited. If you never need to go on the highway, never need to go above 40 mph, or don't mind having a year 2000 compact EV pickup that costs $25,000, you are in business.



One of the main pluses touted for EV's is the low cost of operation. It is true that the infrastructure for electricity makes it a relatively cheap option. Once again, remember that your taxes help to defray the cost of electricity, so that does lower your monthly bill.



And electric motors do not have the moving parts and wear and tear of gas engines. So they do last much longer without breakdowns (many industrial electric motors have been in almost continuous operation for over 50 years).



However, the large cost of converting a vehicle over to EV only or plug-in, plus providing a vehicle to begin with, more than make up for the lower cost of continuous operation.



Using lead acid batteries is weighty and the charge is used up quickly, though the cost is lower and the availability is easy.

Nickel cadmium batteries are so toxic and they have a memory so the charge is reduced as they are run. So they are not a good choice to consider and are largely not used.

Nickel metal hydride batteries are lighter in weight and hold more charge for the same size, so the range is extended. However, the cost is much higher and they are much harder to come by. Memory is usually not a problem.

Lithium ion are the best of the current/upcoming crop of batteries for size, weight, power holding and memory is not an issue. However, cost is highest and availibility is very difficult for the average person.



So, between the lack of range, lack of long term power (long term speed= highway cruising), high cost, and the long charge times, EV's are not a good option for many people.



*NGV Civics are a great idea for places like California. You lease a NG Phill for your home for about $70 a month and then you pump your Civic full each night.



The NGV Civic costs about $25,000 and the natural gas costs whatever the market is.



The mileage is 28city/39highway, less than a standard Civic on gas, and the NGV holds about 8.03 gallons equivalent, for a range of about 220-240 miles, in regular driving (Honda website). That range should handle most daily commuting, but weekend trips might be a problem. And refilling takes about 16 hours at home if the tank is empty. However, refueling can be much faster at pumps throughout California.



Orders for the Civic NGV are being taken now for delivery starting Oct. 2007.



Great option, as long as you can wait until the end of the year, or beginning of next year for delivery (depending on how many people order one and how many are available). Also, consider the short range and refueling issues. Plus the $25+ cost. However, the emissions are nearly zero.



* The choice I would recommend is a full hybrid like the Toyota Prius or Honda Civic. A full hybird can actually move using only electricity (as opposed to a partial hybrid like the Vue Green Line that has to have the gas engine running to move the vehicle).



You will have:

- a range of about 400 miles

- a vehicle that makes no compromises for keeping up with traffic

- a new vehicle (if you do that) with a full warranty from a national company

- a proven technology

- all the comfort and convenience features you will want/need



Plus, speaking for Toyota, there has yet to be a nickel metal hydride battery fail. The current record is a Prius with over 360,000 miles with the original NiMH and hybrid system. That is not a typo, and anything you may have seen is an urban myth. So the tech there is extremely stable and reliable.



Another urban myth that I still see being posted is about the Prius being worse for the environment to produce than the Hummer because of the nickel metal hydride batteries. I have addressed this multiple times. Do a search for resolved questions in Yahoo Answers about the Prius and Hummer and you can see why this myth is wrong on many counts.



So, you need to decide how much risk you're willing to accept and how many limitations you want to place upon your driving.



If nothing else, learn to drive what you get,or have, in a new way. One of the main things I teach at my classes is how to maximize mileage with whatever you drive.



I average 51-53 mpg in a Prius, with the air and stereo on, in mixed highway and city driving. This is done by simply taking your foot off the accelerator and coasting (or gently pressing the brake pedal in a vehicle with regenerative braking) beginning at double the distance you'd normally begin to stop. And then pressing on the accelerator like there is an egg under the pedal and you're trying to gently roll the egg out, not crush it.



These two techniques, plus checking your tires 2X a week with a digital tire gauge and not using E85, will go a long way to improve your mileage.



Good luck, and enjoy your new vehicle, whatever it is.
anonymous
2007-05-26 12:55:36 UTC
narural gas is waaaay best...abt 2 a gallon compaired to gasoline and low pollution
Austin
2007-05-26 12:52:25 UTC
Plug-ins are nice, you get averaged 99.9 MPG and I hear it's not all that expensive.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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